The Law Gazette`s comments page on extending the sentencing powers of magistrates courts has as expected produced the same old arguments that one reads almost annually when this proposal gets a public airing. The usual people respond that the best way to serve justice is to remove entirely the powers of magistrates courts to use custody as a sentencing option. Earlier this week The Guardian had published this. A new Lord Chancellor has already in his short time in office come out with the usual platitudes. No doubt there will be more to come. A looming financial crisis is once again going to be an excuse for delaying the much needed finance to reduce the abysmally long delays especially in the crown courts. All this hoo ha reminded me of a post I wrote almost exactly 11 years ago on 20th October 2010. I think it might jog a few memories and even be instructive if I copy it below in full.
QUESTIONS IN THE HOUSE/SHORT SENTENCES
by TheJusticeofthePeace @ 20. Oct. 2010. – 12:52:52
A
question and answer session yesterday with Justice Secretary Kenneth Clarke on
short sentences at Magistrates` Courts is worth copying here below.
Short Custodial Sentences
Oral Answers to Questions — Justice
House of Commons debates, 19 October 2010, 2:30 pm
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Commons debates on 19 Oct 2010
Hazel Blears (Salford and Eccles,
Labour)
What recent discussions he has had with
the Sentencing Guidelines Council on its guidance on short custodial sentences.
Kenneth Clarke (Lord Chancellor,
Secretary of State, Justice; Rushcliffe, Conservative)
The Sentencing Guidelines Council has
not issued any specific guidance on short custodial sentences. We have had no
discussions with the council on this topic, which we are considering as part of
our assessment of sentencing policy.
Hazel Blears (Salford and Eccles,
Labour)
The Secretary of State may be aware of
a recent case in my constituency in which a young man suffering from autism and
Asperger's syndrome was subjected to a series of horrific attacks by three
other young men. The judge said that the attacks could almost amount to torture,
yet the three perpetrators were given community orders. During the general
election, Mr Cameron, now the Prime Minister, told the country that we are not
convicting enough. He then explicitly said that
"when we do convict them, they're
not getting long enough sentences."
Just two weeks ago, in his speech to
the Conservative party conference, the Prime Minister said that
"offenders who should go to prison
will go to prison".
I agree with the Prime Minister-does
the Secretary of State?
Kenneth Clarke (Lord Chancellor,
Secretary of State, Justice; Rushcliffe, Conservative)
One of the failings of the last
Government was to take a popular subject from the popular press and make rather
shallow partisan points out of it. Sentencing in individual cases is not a matter
for Ministers, and should not be a matter for sensational comment to the
newspapers by Ministers with the frequency that it was. We have to ensure that
justice is done, particularly to the victims of crime, and that justice is
carried out in such a way as to reduce the risk of reoffending. We have made
our approach to crime perfectly clear: we must punish the guilty. Prison is the
right place for serious criminals-they will not commit more crimes while
inside-but we also strive to avoid reoffending. The case that the right hon.
Lady mentions was obviously a serious case for the victim, but newspaper
cuttings from Salford are not the source of future criminal justice reform.
Philip Davies (Shipley, Conservative)
Will the Secretary of State take this
opportunity to acknowledge that very few people are sentenced to prison for a
first offence? The vast majority of people who serve short-term prison
sentences do so only because they have been given community sentence after
community sentence, all of which have failed. The last thing to do with those
people is to give them another community sentence, only for it to fail once
again.
Kenneth Clarke (Lord Chancellor,
Secretary of State, Justice; Rushcliffe, Conservative)
It is very pleasant to say that I
largely agree with my hon. Friend. He has probably been upset by reports that I
am minded to abolish short prison sentences. Actually, I have always expressed
precisely the opposite opinion. It has never been my view that we should
abolish all short prison sentences. Indeed, I have rather shared his opinion
that with the kind of irritating recidivist offender who is causing a lot of
damage, if they offend over and over again there is quite often no alternative
to a short prison sentence. There are too many such offenders, and although
there are cases in which we can avoid the use of short prison sentences, if we
do that we must have a very effective alternative.
Sadiq Khan (Tooting, Labour)
May I begin by saying how much I
genuinely relish the prospect of debating-and, dare I say, arguing-with the
Lord Chancellor and his team on the matters in their portfolio? I am also
looking forward to working with the coalition Government where there are areas
of agreement between us, notably on the use of restorative justice projects
such as community payback-a subject that has already been raised by Elizabeth
Truss and other colleagues. However, the right hon. and learned Gentleman will
know that most people who receive short prison sentences are persistent
offenders who have refused to change their behaviour, even after undergoing
community sentences, as has been said. He has said that he is not against
abolishing the power of magistrates to award short sentences. Will he commit
today not to reduce, in the sentencing review now taking place, the power of
magistrates to give custodial sentences where appropriate?
Kenneth Clarke (Lord Chancellor,
Secretary of State, Justice; Rushcliffe, Conservative)
I welcome the right hon. Gentleman to
his place, and I look forward to debating with him. He has certainly got to
Cabinet level a damn sight more quickly than I ever did, so I am sure that he
will prove a formidable challenge to the Government. As I have already said, we
will not take away powers from magistrates courts, which sometimes find it
absolutely inevitable that they have to give somebody a short prison sentence,
because everything else has failed and that person is continuing to cause
damage to other people. However, we hope to provide magistrates with the full
range of alternatives. As my right hon. Friend the Minister for Policing and
Criminal Justice said a few moments ago, more credible community
sentences-sentences with a properly punitive element that might have a better
chance of rehabilitating the offender-should be tried in more cases, and we
will try to provide them for magistrates.
Sadiq Khan (Tooting, Labour)
I am grateful to the Lord Chancellor
for that answer. He has made it absolutely clear that magistrates will not have
the power to give short sentences taken away from them. For clarity, will he
also confirm that the cuts that will be announced tomorrow will not lead to a
reduction in any prison places or to any prisons being closed?
Kenneth Clarke (Lord Chancellor,
Secretary of State, Justice; Rushcliffe, Conservative)
I hope that the right hon. Gentleman is
not going to follow his predecessors in making a great policy point about a
target for the number of people in prison, because there is no evidence that
that does any good to anybody. We do have to- [ Interruption. ] The present
numbers are enormous compared with the numbers when we were last in office.
There are 20,000 more people in prison than there were when we last had a
Conservative Home Secretary in charge. We are looking at what works, and what
protects the public. Prison must be used for those for whom it is essential,
but it is simply not the case that prison is the only way of dealing with all
offenders. Once we have punished people and given others a break from their
activities, the key thing is to do more than the present system does to reduce
the risk of their reoffending and committing more crimes against more victims,
to which the present system almost condemns us. More than half of prisoners-
John Bercow (Speaker)
Order. I am grateful to the Secretary
of State, but we now need shorter questions and shorter answers.
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